Please !!! The truth guys.

[jim tate]

I have been a rock solid KDE/RedHat/Fedora User since RH5.2,but I really
feel That Redhat is trying to slowly push
KDE out the back door, and Gnome is in, with the F7 release.
Someone please get me straighten out on this.

Jim

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[Rex Dieter]

Post by jim tate
I have been a rock solid KDE/RedHat/Fedora User since RH5.2,but I really
feel That Redhat is trying to slowly push
KDE out the back door, and Gnome is in, with the F7 release.
Someone please get me straighten out on this.

No one will argue that Gnome has been (and will continue to be, in the
near term anyway) Fedora's default desktop, but otherwise, those
conclusions of "push KDE out the back door" couldn't be further from the
truth:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/KDE
(and notice whose names are on each).

(:


-- Rex


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[Arthur Pemberton]

Post by jim tate
I have been a rock solid KDE/RedHat/Fedora User since RH5.2,but I really
feel That Redhat is trying to slowly push
KDE out the back door, and Gnome is in, with the F7 release.
Someone please get me straighten out on this.
Jim

Could you itemize your reasons for this thinking?

Currently, the only think I see that support is the lack of a kpup
(rendering yum-updatesd useless)

[Erik Kjær Pedersen]

Post by Rex Dieter

Post by jim tate
I have been a rock solid KDE/RedHat/Fedora User since RH5.2,but I really
feel That Redhat is trying to slowly push
KDE out the back door, and Gnome is in, with the F7 release.
Someone please get me straighten out on this.

No one will argue that Gnome has been (and will continue to be, in the
near term anyway) Fedora's default desktop, but otherwise, those
conclusions of "push KDE out the back door" couldn't be further from the

I am more worried about kde becoming "redhat customized" rather than the
clean kde-version we have been getting from you. An example: My wife uses the
Danish, German and US keyboards. In KDE they are symbolized by the flags, and
very easy to see. The redhat version has the flags removed because of some
problem between China and Taiwan (sigh), and replaced by symbols that are
almost unreadable. It is very irritating.

Best regards

Erik

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[Rex Dieter]

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen

Post by Rex Dieter

Post by jim tate
I have been a rock solid KDE/RedHat/Fedora User since RH5.2,but I
really feel That Redhat is trying to slowly push
KDE out the back door, and Gnome is in, with the F7 release.
Someone please get me straighten out on this.

No one will argue that Gnome has been (and will continue to be, in the
near term anyway) Fedora's default desktop, but otherwise, those
conclusions of "push KDE out the back door" couldn't be further from the

I am more worried about kde becoming "redhat customized" rather than the
clean kde-version we have been getting from you.

If it makes any difference, I will be directly involved in future iterations
of Fedora kde packaging, so I'll continue to do my best in maintaining the
same packaging standards as with kde-redhat.

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
An example: My wife uses
the Danish, German and US keyboards. In KDE they are symbolized by the
flags, and very easy to see. The redhat version has the flags removed
because of some problem between China and Taiwan (sigh), and replaced by
symbols that are almost unreadable. It is very irritating.

Agreed, but this particular item *may* be unavoidable:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Languages#head-2ae52dbef2515e18d66fba220112c712c9d2eb14

-- Rex


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[Erik Kjær Pedersen]

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
and replaced by

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
symbols that are almost unreadable. It is very irritating.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Languages#head-2ae52dbef2515e18d66fba220112c7
12c9d2eb14

Well but the flags do not have to be replaced by unreadable icons. I am sure
it is done by somebody in North Carolina who only speaks one language :-)

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[Rex Dieter]

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
and replaced by

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
symbols that are almost unreadable. It is very irritating.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Languages

Well but the flags do not have to be replaced by unreadable icons. I am
sure it is done by somebody in North Carolina who only speaks one language
:-)

Then offer a better alternative... (:

-- Rex


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[Erik Kjær Pedersen]

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
Well but the flags do not have to be replaced by unreadable icons. I am
sure it is done by somebody in North Carolina who only speaks one language
:-)

Maybe the flags could be at livna. They are a very good solution to tell you
the truth

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[Rex Dieter]

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
Well but the flags do not have to be replaced by unreadable icons. I am
sure it is done by somebody in North Carolina who only speaks one language
:-)

Maybe the flags could be at livna. They are a very good solution to tell you
the truth

But not a "Fedora" solution. ):

-- Rex

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[Hans Ecke]

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
Well but the flags do not have to be replaced by unreadable icons. I am
sure it is done by somebody in North Carolina who only speaks one language
:-)

Maybe the flags could be at livna. They are a very good solution to tell you
the truth

So how about splitting out a "language-icons" package? Then livna could
override that package or supply their own "language-icons-flags"
package. Fedora gets to stay politically correct but endusers are free
to use the flags if they so choose.

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[Rex Dieter]

Post by Hans Ecke

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
Well but the flags do not have to be replaced by unreadable icons. I
am sure it is done by somebody in North Carolina who only speaks one
language
:-)

Maybe the flags could be at livna. They are a very good solution to
tell you the truth

So how about splitting out a "language-icons" package? Then livna could
override that package or supply their own "language-icons-flags"
package. Fedora gets to stay politically correct but endusers are free
to use the flags if they so choose.

Me? I don't consider something as small as flag icons worth *my* extra
time/effort to package separately (whether it's in another repo or not),
but if it's that important to you, go for it, knock yourself out.

-- Rex


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[Bent Terp]

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
and replaced by

Post by Erik Kjær Pedersen
symbols that are almost unreadable. It is very irritating.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Languages

Well but the flags do not have to be replaced by unreadable icons. I am

The current system already uses a set of symbols for languages. When a
one-to-one mapping between languages and national flags are possible and
uncontroversial, use a symbol that strongly resemble those flags....

E.g. In Denmark there is one official language (danish), and that language is
the official language only in Denmark. The danish flag (Dannebrog) has been
the defacto symbol for both the country and the language for more than two
hundred years. No need to invent a new symbol.

Other languages, say english, are used as official language in several
countries (albeight they've forked the standards). Some countries, like
India, have several official languages. And let's not even get anywhere near
the dispute over one or two Chinas, that really needs to be handled outside
kde &/ fedora. (Although a few coders probably could resolve the issue a lot
faster than hundreds of politicians....)

So clearly this does not work everywhere, but that's no real reason to not use
national flags in the simple, uncontroversial cases.

Besides, if the keyboard layout indicator really really REALLY has to avoid
national flags for whatever reason, then it should use real text instead of
bitmaps, so the user can fix readability issues - like the clock.

/Bent

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